Catch up on our Instagram Live with The Advocates for Human Rights

Alberto Villafan
Hi everyone. You cannot see my face right now, just because we’re limited by how many cameras we have in this room. But thank you for joining us. My name is Alberto Villafan. I’m the Digital producer at Sahan journal, and today we are starting a new little series, Sahan live. Thank you all so much for joining us. Today. We’re going to be partnering with the Advocates for Human Rights for this Instagram live conversation. The nongovernmental international human rights organization is based in Minneapolis and serves the upper Midwest. Today, I’m joined by two of their members of its refugee and immigration program. I’m going to let them introduce themselves. We already have one of them on camera. Hi, how are you doing today?

Kim Boche
Hi, my name is Kim. They/them. I’m a supervising attorney for the Advocates for Human Rights, and I supervise our unaccompanied minor cases, so children that are here without their parents, and lead a team of attorneys serving that population, and also provide training and technical support to our pro bono partners who help us take those cases on.

Alberto Villafan
Thank you so much for joining us today. Kim, really appreciate having you here, and next, we’re going to introduce our second Expert. Today, we have little transitions so we can see your faces.

Hanne Sandison
Great. My name is Hanne Sanderson. She/her. I direct the Refugee and Immigrant program, and we work as a program with over 1000 volunteer attorneys to represent people that are going through their immigration case because of human rights violation, or because they’re likely to have a human rights violation happen to them if they return to their country of origin. So we work with asylum seekers, trafficking survivors, unaccompanied kids, like Kim was saying, and people that were evacuated from Afghanistan. So we lead a I lead a team of about about 12 of us, and we work, like I said, with over 1000 volunteer attorneys to represent people throughout the Upper Midwest, so Minnesota, North and South Dakota.

Alberto Villafan
Thank you so much for joining us today, Hanne. I really appreciate you guys taking your time. It means a lot for us. Kim, we already got a report that you’re a little hard to hear. Remember to hug and try to eat the microphone. So before we started this show, you guys were talking about how we’ve started hearing a lot of reports, or you guys have heard a lot of messages, comments about just a general anxiety coming from young people, older families, etc. What are some of the things that you guys have been hearing? Hanne, we already have the camera on you. So do you so do you want to start?

Hanne Sandison
I can start, yeah, you know, I think there is a lot of fear and uncertainty in the immigrant community and in in communities in general, because immigrants are part of every community, and just kind of not knowing what to expect, hearing a lot of threats. And, you know, negative rhetoric coming out of this administration about immigration and promises that were made to deport people and tear apart communities. So we are seeing a lot of fear, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of questions, certainly an uptick from a couple of months ago, but in my experience, even an uptick from from the last trump administration. And so one of the things we’ve spent a lot of time doing is making sure people know where to get good information, so that they can make the best decisions for themselves and their families, and also do our best to combat this harmful and incorrect rhetoric coming out of out of this administration. What are some of these examples of incorrect rhetoric that you’ve heard recently? Well, I think basically the entire way that this administration paints the non citizen population is wrong, and I think it’s intended to instill fear and to, you know, create uncertainty in the non Citizen community, and so, you know, whether it’s talking about, you know, equating non citizens with with criminals or something like that, that we just work really hard to combat that, you know, and make sure that we are saying the right things and speaking about the members of our community in in a way that that is accurate and honest, and that we are working to build communities that we’re proud of and that we want to be a part of, and thinking forward about, like, what, what does that look like? Not not looking, you know, in fear at kind of what’s coming out of this administration, but really taking our communities and our futures in our hands and saying, like, who do we want to be, and how do we make that happen, and how do we make our voice heard to make that happen?

Alberto Villafan
So Kim, you mentioned that you primarily work with families and kids. Is that correct?

Kim Boche
Yeah, yeah. We’re also see.

Hanne Sandison
Them that have been that have been threatened, even if they don’t happen, there is a very real effect of causing fear in the communities, and that that changes the way that people interact in their communities and the way that they live their lives in their communities. One of the ways that one of the things that’s impacted is their comfort in reaching out to law enforcement reporting crimes that happen to them, and kind of reaching out for help if they need it, and that is not good for our communities, right? We want people to be able to report if crimes happen to them, to reach out to law enforcement if they need help, and to have the safety to be able to do that. I think it’s good to inform yourself on on the position of your local law enforcement and kind of what exactly their interaction is with with immigration. But certainly in Minneapolis and Saint Paul, they’ve said like trying to encourage people to to report crimes against them, to reach out if they need help, and are trying to assure, assure the community that that isn’t going to have an immigration implication. They are not going to reach out to immigration if that happens.

Alberto Villafan
Thank you for the answer. Looks like we have one coming in from our chat. This one is: in addition to helping our friends and neighbors with preparedness, what guidance is there on quote, bearing witness when we see ice or law enforcement violating the rights of our neighbors?

Hanne Sandison
So as I understand the question, they’re just, they’re asking about, you know, some best practices, I suppose, if, if you kind of see ice or the or the police doing some sort of enforcement action against your neighbor. I think that that really depends on on you and kind of how you want to get involved in the situation, what you’re comfortable stepping in to do. And I don’t want to advise any individual, especially someone I am not able to talk to one on one about what they should or should not do in that circumstance. But I do think it is always important to have a witness to these sort of arrests and enforcement actions, whether or not rights are being violated, whether or not something is happening that shouldn’t be I think having someone document what’s going on, and being able to be a witness, should that be necessary down the road, is really important. So being able to stand up and be a presence there, and also know kind of who, who is there, like, who is doing that enforcement, knowing whether it’s ice, whether it’s the police, where they’re taking somebody. Because one challenge if someone is being arrested by ICE, for example, is that people don’t always know where they go, and it’s hard to know, especially in the first couple of days where someone has been taken. And so being able to ask those questions and understand where someone went, and can answer those questions as well for family who may not be there to see it.

Alberto Villafan
So on the topic of, you know, protecting yourself and staying safe, you know, what do people still have, like, some protections, even if they don’t have an immigration status, you know, What? What? What protections do they have, if any at all?

Kim Boche
Yeah, people still have the right to remain silent. They still have the right to medical care if there’s some kind of emergency. And we do want people to know their rights so that they’re able to protect themselves as needed. We are recommending folks watch our Know Your Rights. Video on social media, and it has a lot of those broken down. It takes about five minutes, but we are recommending folks carry the Know Your Rights red cards. If you Google that, you should be able to carry that in your wallet, making sure you understand the differences in legal administrative warrants if there is police officer ice coming to your house knowing that you have the right to consult with an attorney and read the documents that are given to you. I’m sorry. Can we backtrack for just a second? You said an administrative warrant? I Can you define what that means, yeah, yeah. So there is a difference between a police warrant that is signed by a judge or a magistrate. It has to be articulate, it has to have your name, the address, the thing or location that is going to be searched, and that gives a police officer the authority to enter the place that is written on the warrant. ICE uses administrative warrants. That means it’s a document that says warrant at the very top, but it is signed by an ICE official of some kind, and so it doesn’t give ICE the legal authority to enter your house. To conduct a search in your premises. So we do recommend folks use those red cards so that they are aware that they have the right to say, No, I don’t want to answer questions. No, I don’t want to be searched all of that.

Alberto Villafan
So what can an ICE officer do with an administrative warrant, you know what? What are they allowed to do with that?

Kim Boche
When you open the door like, let’s say, they’re coming into your home, they are allowed to essentially enter if you are opening your door, they usually take that authority a lot of the time. ICE is allowed to lie to the public, right? They can drive around in unmarked cars. They can say they’re looking for someone there found a lost wallet or something like that. So there are different ways to get access and entry to people, and once that access and entry is granted, it is really difficult to get out of so it would be possible for someone to knock on your door. You let them in, they’re saying they’re looking for a neighbor or something like that, and then you end up detained it in custody.

Alberto Villafan
So a rule of thumb would just be not to open your door. Am I understanding that correctly? Right?

Kim Boche
Yeah. So if ICE is coming to your door, don’t open it. Ask who it is, and ask to see that warrant and make sure that you are seeing that it is signed by a judicial officer and that it has your name and address on that paper. Otherwise they don’t have authority to really be bothering you.

Alberto Villafan
Going back a little bit, you know, we have a question from our chat again, what site is the Know Your Rights video on that you mentioned?

Hanne Sandison
It’s on our so for the Advocates for Human Rights, it’s on our social media accounts. It’s also on our YouTube channel. So you, if you’re not on social media, you can go to YouTube and see our Know Your Rights video both in English and in Spanish. And it has Kim actually put this together. It’s very beautiful, but it has pictures of the two different types of warrants, so you can get a sense of what those look like and what to look for. And the main thing is, right, looking at who signed it, and if it’s signed by a judge, then that does give the official the power to to search and to arrest and all of that. And if it’s signed by an immigration officer or someone that works for ICE, it does not right? So this the and what? Back to your question a little while ago. I think as a general statement, it’s important to remind people that the Constitution applies to everybody. The constitution has not been suspended. We still have the Constitution and people. The most important thing is that people know what rights they have under the Constitution, understand those rights and feel empowered to act on them, and that one of the things that the effects of these kind of threats and these scare tactics is people, either, you know, kind of aren’t comfortable exercising their rights, or don’t know them, and they’re afraid, and they don’t stand up and kind of say, like, Nope, I don’t consent to that. I you know, I have the right to remain silent. So we want to make sure people know to do that, know they have the right to do that, and then feel empowered to do that. And the red cards Kim was mentioning have like a script on them. So if you are uncomfortable, kind of speaking these things out loud, you can hand them to the officer, and they basically declare your rights, rights to remain silent, right to not be searched, all of that. You can slip it under the door if you don’t want to open the door, which we recommend, but then you don’t have to kind of know or have a script that you feel comfortable kind of saying out loud.

Alberto Villafan
So what is the Advocates for Human Rights? What are you guys doing to get this information to people who maybe don’t know about your organization, don’t have access to the internet. How are you reaching people? Well, here we are.

Hanne Sandison
This is one of the ways, but that video as well is one of the ways that we’re trying to make sure as many people know about their rights and are seeing that in an accessible way. You know, trying to get out into into the community, talking to client, all of our clients, you know, we’re telling them, you know, make sure you’re getting information from good places. Make sure you’re watching these things. Make sure you’re preparing in this way and just trying to reach people in as many ways as possible about what’s true and what their rights are. We can’t dispel every rumor, right? We that’s a game of whack, a mole that will just all tire ourselves out playing, but wanting to make sure that we’re getting good and true information out there so people know how to sift through the garbage, and also know how to exercise their own rights and be confident in in themselves if, if they do have an interest with with ICE.

Alberto Villafan
So, like you said, we obviously can’t debunk every single rumor I see that’s a non winning game, yes, but have you guys seen, like common ones, something that you see people constantly misunderstanding, not understanding or just not knowing?

Hanne Sandison
Yeah. I’m sure Kim does as well. I can, say a few. I think there’s certainly been reports of raids that have been on social media or people have reached out to us, and raids meaning large scale ice enforcement activity. So ice is conducting enforcement activity, but we haven’t seen any like large scale workplace raids or anything like that. There’s in Minnesota, correct? There’s been, you know, misunderstandings of, you know, if police is somewhere looking for somebody, that someone reports that it’s ice, that kind of thing. And then there’s just miss, misunderstandings about what rights people have or what the status of their immigration case is now under this administration. So people asking questions about, like, can I still seek asylum? Or what, like, I have asylum? Am I allowed to stay? So, you know, misunderstandings and questions about about their legal status, because there’s been so much kind of attack against people in in different legal statuses, or kind of in the process of seeking legal status.

Kim Boche
So on the topic of all these orders and the immigration courts, you know, with all the orders that we’ve seen from Trump to deport millions of people, you know, how do we expect the immigration court system to actually handle it? To my understanding, it’s already a little flooded. Is that not true?

Hanne Sandison
A little flooded? I like that term. Yeah, I, I think there’s a lot of problems with the threat to deport millions of people the you know, there’s moral and ethical problems with that, certainly, but there’s also logistical problems, financial problems, right? Like, there’s a lot that goes into, you know, arresting individuals, and you know, they have the right to go through their immigration court proceedings if they’re being deported in most circumstances. And so, you’re right. The court has a large backlog in Minnesota. It’s, you know, 10s of 1000s of cases that are waiting to be heard. And so there’s, yeah, there’s a large backlog, and this is going to make it quite a bit larger. And there has been no promise of increased funding or support for the systems of adjudication that really help determine whether someone has an argument under the law to stay in the United States or not. So the asylum office that adjudicates asylum claims, and also, you know, does screenings at the border for people that are seeking asylum there, and the immigration courts that are adjudicating these removal hearings, we don’t have any promises of more funding or more support for those, for those parts of the government that can kind of help ensure due processes is met.

Alberto Villafan
So it’s fine if you guys don’t have a good answer this. This is a vague question, but how long does it typically take to in immigration court? Like, how long are you just waiting in limbo? I guess, does that make sense?

Hanne Sandison
Yeah it depends. That’s the classic lawyer answer for everything. It depends on what type of relief you’re seeking. So in court, basically the Department of Homeland Security is, you know, levels charges against you that you don’t have the right to either be here or stay here. And then you have that opportunity to raise a defense to that, you can either say, Nope, that’s wrong. I actually do, or you can say, like, Okay, I don’t have a visa. I don’t have permission, but I would like to put forward an asylum claim because I’m afraid to return to my country of origin, I can’t do that. So it depends on what whether or not you have some defense. What that defense is, if you have an attorney that’s able to help you prepare, how long it took you to find an attorney, and then kind of where you ended up, like the court is trying to manage a lot of different cases, and some of them are moving on a faster clip, and some of them have been waiting more than five years for hearings. And so it really depends on kind of a lot of different factors, but it could be anywhere from, you know, a couple of months if you’re not raising any claim to relief, to, like, nearly a decade, probably if you’re not lucky, and in Yeah,

Alberto Villafan
A decade?

Hanne Sandison
it can be.

Alberto Villafan
That’s. So do you expect, like immigration courts to take longer with with the new orders to deport significantly more people?

Kim Boche
I mean, yes. a larger population seeking some sort of process to apply for a protection order that just needs to get through the system in its entirety, and the court or the Department of Homeland Security is also expanding what we call expedited removal, which is a process that accelerates the rate at which you’re going through your immigration case and immigration proceedings.

Alberto Villafan
Okay, thank you. We have another question from the chat right now. You know, where can people find bilingual resources? You know, not just English and Spanish, though there there are people who speak Somali, French languages, yeah.

Hanne Sandison
So there’s a great website that we have here in Minnesota called, well, the address is lawhelpmn.org, and that is a place where you can search for an attorney or an office that might be able to help you with a case. It also has a self help library. We have one on our website as well, but the one on law health, MN is broader, so there’s immigration, there’s non immigration, there’s many different types of immigration cases and information, and it’s translated into a lot of different languages. I don’t think it’s consistent across every single document, but I know that a lot of the documents that we have helped work on in the past couple of years to provide kind of expertise on those resources have been Spanish, Somali, Hmong, Oromo, Karen, French, Haitian-Creole. So there’s a lot of different, yeah, languages that it’s translated into, and English as well. So I recommend that. And then we have our self help library as well, and other organizations postings to their to their websites as well.

Alberto Villafan
I’m going to pivot a little bit so we have recently seen the passage of the lake and Riley act, and have heard a lot from the administration, the Trump administration, about expanding actions targeting people with criminal histories. Are there any things people can do to help protect themselves in that regard?

Hanne Sandison
You want to go?

Kim Boche
Yeah, I can go. I think one thing that is really terrifying about the Lincoln Riley Act is that it really does affect people, even without criminal charges or sentences. So it’s harming people that are just arrested, sometimes for something as simple as a theft from a store, so crimes of survival can be criminalized, and that is an expansion that is brought by the act. Could you repeat your question?

Alberto Villafan
Are there any things that people can do to protect themselves?

Kim Boche
Yeah, yeah. I think I mean knowing your rights is definitely going to be important to that generally, if you can avoid it, avoiding things that are going to get you in trouble, theft, larceny, assault, no, police officer, things like that, things that are targeted by the by the act itself is going to be really important.Yeah? Hanne, what would you

Hanne Sandison
Yeah.

Kim Boche
add anything there.

Hanne Sandison
Yeah, I think you know, just understanding what the Act says. So like Kim said, you don’t need a conviction necessarily to fall under this Act. And so, you know, we have this idea in our criminal legal system that you’re innocent until proven guilty, and you have the ability to put on your case and show if you did not commit that crime, prove that you did not right. This Act basically circumvents that process and can take someone into immigration custody because they have this criminal charge, whether or not it’s true, take them into immigration custody and then they are not allowed to be released. So this mandatory detention does is not mandatory. Arrest is mandatory. You have to stay in detention the whole time you’re going through your case. So they do not have the opportunity to leave and then put on their put on their defense or show that they’re actually innocent of those crimes. They are forced to remain in immigration detention the whole time. So it’s not good. It is not good. It is not making communities safer. It is not just there is no age limit. So if people are, you know, kids that are being that are arrested for shoplifting, that counts as well.

Alberto Villafan
So children can be detained, correct?

Hanne Sandison
Yeah, it depends on the so in Minnesota, our facilities are 18 and older, but there are other not, yes, yeah, they don’t have to stay here. So, yeah, I think it’s just making sure you understand what that is, just being, being really, really careful and preparing in the event like the family preparedness, right? In the event that you are arrested or picked up, that you have a plan for yourself and your family.

Alberto Villafan
On the topic of plans, you know, what questions should people be bringing when they do meet with their attorneys regarding their legal status? Yeah, so we definitely recommend that people meet with a lawyer and get a consultation. There’s so many different areas of immigration law. There’s so many different types of pathways that make might be available to somebody, and it’s good to have a like broad consultation about what might be available to you, and it might not be something that’s on your radar. So just going with, with any immigration documentation that you have, and then answering, answering all the questions that the lawyer has for you. They have a good way of going through their intake process and understanding kind of what might be, what might be available to you, and then they can give you a good sense about about what your options are, what are some common questions that you would ask some of your clients? So we work specifically with people in the humanitarian immigration space, right? So we’re asking about, you know, whether they’re afraid to go back to their country. Why they’re afraid? What about them, you know, makes it dangerous for them to to return, what’s kind of their specific story, right? You know, different questions, obviously, if they’re kids or trafficking survivors, you know different lines of questions there, but if you’re getting a consult from a private attorney, for example, they will ask a lot of questions about their the family history. If they have family that’s US citizens kind of that individual’s history of entry with a visa or not a visa, any crime that’s been committed against that person in the past. So there’s a kind of a broad, you know, buffet of questions, I will say, and I do want to plug that on our website. We have a become a client page that’s a good way to get into our intake. But there’s also a list in Spanish and English, of nonprofits and private attorneys that are immigration attorneys in the area. So you can download that, and it lists what types of cases they take and also what languages they speak in their offices. So you can find attorneys that you might want to talk to you. I’m just going to remind everyone tuning into this broadcast that as soon as we’re done with this show, we’re going to be able to link all of these resources onto our website. There’s an article already on our home page that should give you some clarification on what we’re talking about as well. Case you do need a list or connection to all these links that we’re dropping and mentioning, we’ll have those for you later. Okay. Kim you, what would you recommend for your clients? What do you think they need to prepare?

Kim Boche
Yeah, I like to stick to the basics. Do you know your status? What if you are going to be talking to ice or something? Do you know if you have a green card? Do you know if you have one asylum Do you know what is going on in your immigration case? A lot of that is also to calm people’s nerves, right? If you have an asylum claim that is pending, you are in a better position to fight, to stay here in the United States to fight your case, whereas you don’t have something filed in pending. So what kind of documents is that that child or that individual going to be carrying? Do they have something like a work permit card that is going to be proof of identity and proof that they have an application pending, or that they have a form of relief approved.

Alberto Villafan
So we’ve seen temporary protective status also come under attack in recent weeks, in recent weeks, you know, can we define what TPS (temporary protective status) means, and how that’s different from asylum?

Kim Boche
Yeah, so asylum is fear of return to your home country based on either past persecution or future persecution. It has to be connected in some way to your race, your religion, your ethnicity, your nationality or something we call a particular social group. And that is very amorphous and is seldom defined, but essentially that you are a group that is seen within a community. So an LGBT group, um, a women facing a domestic violence in a situation where she can’t leave things like that. Um, Temporary Protected Status is not a status that is less forever. Right? So if you win asylum, you win protection from being returned to your home country, and that status will eventually lead to legal permanent residence, and it could lead to citizenship. But temporary protected status doesn’t have that. It is something that we have defined as a country that has something happened, either like a war or a natural disaster, and we designate that country and say, like because of this thing, we’re not going to send you back right now, once that country is not designated, then the US will have the opportunity to to try to begin removing people if they’re not part of a designated country that has TPS so.

Alberto Villafan
So then what resources should, or what resources should people be going to if they have more questions about their TPS changes?

Hanne Sandison
Yeah, so again, I’m going to recommend people speak to a lawyer you know, both to understand where they’re at in their TPS process and whether or not it’s expiring, and then also what, like Kim said, and the name TPS suggests it’s a temporary status. And so it’s really important to understand, if there’s a some sort of way that you can stay here permanently, is there a pathway for you to remain here and to get permanent legal status? And so to talk to a an attorney, to understand what those might be, and get yourself in that process as soon as you can, I think the more permanent your legal status, the safer, the safer you are. But in the in the meantime, and I think you’ve kind of asked this question, and I haven’t said this before, so I just want to make sure that I say it now, just making sure you have copies of documents showing what your legal status is, whether that’s a copy of of your green card, a copy of a an approval notice or a receipt showing you filed asylum, and bring that with you, so that in the event that you are do have an interaction with ice, that you have proof of where you’re where you’re at in the process, and that you, if you are arrested by ice and you are afraid to go back to your country of origin, that You say that it’s really important that you say that, that you say it often, and that you tell them I am I’m afraid to go back. Please do not I want to claim asylum. I’m afraid to go back. Say that as often as you can so that they can. You have the right to go into that, that process.

Alberto Villafan
So we have a another question from the chat today. Do you record or sorry, tripping with my words, are there legal resources for H2A workers who may be threatened with ICE related retaliations by their employees,

Hanne Sandison
by their employee?

Alberto Villafan
Employer. I have dyslexia. I never learned how to read. I’m sorry.

Hanne Sandison
I don’t actually know the answer to that. So we don’t do a lot of work with employment based visas, but I will say that threatening someone’s immigration status, an employer threatening someone’s immigration status, is a red flag to me for for labor violations and human trafficking. So I think it’s important to understand that just because someone has a visa does not mean that they’re not in a situation of trafficking, and does not mean they’re not being exploited. And the state of Minnesota has a really strong network for labor exploitation and human trafficking, and that’s something that our organization does does as well. So understanding kind of labor trafficking, some of the red flags for that and reaching out to a community organization or us, someone you trust, a pastor, someone that can, that can reach out. Sometimes it’s not safe for the employee to reach out directly to legal service organization, or they’re not able to do that, but if they can get word out to, like I said, a pastor, someone in the in a medical facility that they go to and kind of ask them to for resources, that’s what we we recommend, and certainly can reach out to us as well.

Alberto Villafan
Thank you very much. So we have another question from chat, and this one is one that I actually would really like to know, Do You- do either of you two recommend getting double citizenship for kids born here, but with parents from other countries?

Hanne Sandison
So if they would get a citizenship from somewhere else?

Alberto Villafan
Yeah. So for example, like my, I have directly, I will not disclose my family’s immigration status. You don’t need to know that, but I do have family that reside and are from Mexico, you know, and I’m, to my knowledge, I’m now able to also apply for citizenship there, since I have a direct lineage to it, yeah, do you recommend getting a dual citizenship?

Hanne Sandison
Yeah, so, yeah. Kim might have a different answer to this. I think I’m not worried about people that are citizens of the United States, but I think that’s certainly a personal choice you can make, and gives you options if you are, you know, able to get citizenship somewhere outside of the US and able to hold that dual nationality, I think that gives you, yeah, that gives you options. So it’s worth looking into. For sure, it’s probably a personal decision, but you know, I understand that Trump, in one of his executive orders, attempted to end birthright citizenship. Just to be clear, he’s not able to do that. That is not something he can do through executive order. It is part of our Constitution, and it has been stopped by the court. So if you are a US citizen, you are a US citizen, but you can Yes?

Alberto Villafan
Kim, do you have…?

Kim Boche
Yeah, I think my answer is going to be dependent on the family and the age of the children, right? So what are the statuses of the parents? How old are the children that you’re going to be applying for that passport or citizenship for, and what does the family preparedness plan like look like in the end, is there a plan for the minor children to stay here with another relative or another close family member? Or are you getting that citizenship paper work done because you want that child to be able to leave with you if you are removed? So I do think that it will take maybe talking to an immigration attorney to sort of assess that out if that is the best thing for you and your family. But yeah, I just would, would want to know more about those factors before I gave any sort of advice.

Alberto Villafan
Simply identifying your own personal situation, basically, yeah, yeah. Oh, shoot. So you, Hanne, you mentioned that Trump has tried to remove birthright citizenship. And I know from my own family, from people that I’ve spoken with, that they were legitimately concerned that that was a possibility. It’s not, right?

Hanne Sandison
It’s not and I think the concern that your family feels that’s the point like, that’s what he’s trying to do. And I’m not blaming them. I understand the concern, but he that he’s trying to stoke that fear and uncertainty in communities, and that that is what he’s trying to do. I don’t there. He there is no birthright citizenship has not ended again. It’s part of our Constitution. He can’t just like, sign in Sharpie and make that go away. So no, that their birthright citizenship is still part of our Constitution. The judge that this case went in front of when organizations basically immediately sued on this issue was, like, basically scoffed at the government’s position. He’s like, I can’t I don’t understand how you can possibly put this forward as, like, an actual legal argument. So it is not a good case. Birth rate, citizenship is not over. But I also hear the fear and the uncertainty and that that is kind of what this administration is one of the things they’re trying to do in these orders, is to create that fear and uncertainty in those communities.

Alberto Villafan
What’s the benefit of instigating this type of fear?

Hanne Sandison
Well, I think I mean it. There’s a lot of possible benefits. I don’t have a desire to go into the Trump administration’s mind and understand exactly why they’re choosing the things they’re choosing, for sure, but I think that political parties can benefit from fear and uncertainty. Fear is a very strong driver, and that’s, I think, instilling fear in American citizens about immigrants as well has been a strong driver for this for this party and at this time and so, you know, I don’t know what their end game is here, but I know that, yeah, that creating that fear and uncertainty in those communities, and in some way, making People that were afraid of immigration, feeling more secure, unfortunately, I think, is also part of it.

Alberto Villafan
Thank you. So we’re reaching the end of our broadcast today, and so I’m going to hit you guys both with just two more questions, all right, and if anyone in the audience has anything else they would like to ask, now, is your chance? Speak now? Speak now or forever, hold your peace. So before we log off, where can people find more info about their basic rights and preparedness planning?

Hanne Sandison
Kim’s KYR.

Kim Boche
Follow us on social media. We have that Know Your Rights presentation linked on our. Social media platforms, but there are definitely lots of agencies putting out new rights, and lots of local organizations that are putting together rapid response networks. I know that COPAL Minnesota, or UNIDOS, is putting on a line for reporting ICE and stuff. So there are lots of places where you can get good advice.

Alberto Villafan
Any any recommendations from you [Hanne].

Hanne Sandison
Yeah, I think you know, it’s always good to know where you’re getting your information. So from our from our organization, the ACLU, also puts out some good information on knowing kind of the difference between what police can do versus what ice can do. I think that’s a really useful resource. Immigrant Law Center did a Facebook live a couple weeks ago at his time, I think a couple of weeks ago, but it’s recorded and saved on their Facebook as well that you can ask questions after the fact as well. So we are all working together to put those, to put those out, and to make sure people understand, yeah, what their what their rates are, yeah.

Alberto Villafan
Oh, oh, did you have something you wanted to add?

Kim Boche
Oh, well, I just think the only thing that I wanted to add is a lot of this is destabilizing and really isolated for a lot of the folks that may be watching. And so yeah, knowing your rights is one way to make sure that you can stay involved and stay connected to your community. And yeah, yeah, to hope, yeah,

Alberto Villafan
We’ve got two more questions before I ask my last one. First up is, is an immigrant protected from deportation if they can show paperwork that they have started the process to get asylum.

Hanne Sandison
So that depends, yeah, and the process, but for the most part, I think what I’ll say generally is that asylum people have a right to to seek asylum and have their asylum case heard. There’s a lot of intricacies about how that goes and when and all of that, but I will say, if you are already in court and have filed an asylum application, then that is a demonstration. So when you when, when you file, right? That isn’t a legal status that you get, you don’t have, you’re not in in legal immigration status, but you do have permission to stay here. Excuse me while that case is being adjudicated. So it shows the immigration official like, I have permission to be here. I’m going through this process. So it’s something, something less than, kind of being fully undocumented. So that’s kind of why we suggest you, you show that so you can kind of show that you have that you’re going through the process, you have the right to stay here. What the next steps look like, and how that’s going to go are going to depend on a lot of different things, but I do think it’s a helpful thing to show immigration. I know that wasn’t very straightforward, but

Alberto Villafan
this is not a straightforward time we’re living in. We’ve got one more, which I think we actually touched on, but it’s still worth going back to for folks who hear slash, see a lot of disinformation designed to denigrate our community, or immigrant communities. This is a chat question, by the way, what are a few common myths on rights of immigrants that you can dispel? I think we had you [Hanne] answer last time. Kim can do you want to take a whack at it.

Kim Boche
I mean, I think what Hanne was talking about before, just the language that we use around this is really important. A lot of the language that like criminalizes immigration is important. But also just this language of there being some sort of invasion of migrants, of people, of folks entering through the southern border. They’re like, it really is no invasion. And has also the connotation that people are coming or invading and bringing with them all of the undesirables, disease, crime, violence, all of that stuff. And that is like not something that we see in our communities and see with our neighbors, like immigrants contribute to the economy, they contribute to our communities. And so just yeah, just that rhetoric is something that I wish just went away. Was dispelled.

Alberto Villafan
Did you have something? Did you have something that you wanted to add? Hanne?

Hanne Sandison
Sure. I mean, I kind of jumping off what Kim was saying. I think there’s a lot of mis-misinformation is one. I think there’s been a lot of lies about the immigrant community and kind of how they. Show up in the community, and kind of the benefits that they bring, I think my I have a little bit of discomfort in talking about this, because I don’t like to talk about people as being, like, a benefit or not a benefit, or trying to say some people are worth being here because they, you know, buy stuff, or, you know, like, I think that’s not that’s not how any of us want to talk about it. But I do think it’s worth saying that when they talk about immigrants like being a drain on the economy, or being really expensive or all this, that is just like factually incorrect and immigrants, undocumented immigrants, pay millions and millions of dollars into our Social Security and Medicaid systems and Medicare systems, and aren’t not eligible to draw withdraw from that so it, they are an important part of our economy. Immigrants generally are an important part of our economy. That, to me, is not like the most important argument as to their worth as human beings. But I do think it’s worth saying that, that that’s just a lie. And if you are seeing that right, if you’re seeing someone saying that, or if you’re seeing, you know, reading an article or seeing a post about that, you might want to think twice about the other things that are being said by that person or from that source, and it’s a good way to kind of test whether or not that’s that’s someone or something you want to listen to.

Alberto Villafan
People are simply people whether or not they’re giving a benefit to you.

Hanne Sandison
Correct.

Alberto Villafan
Right. My last question for you guys before we sign off, what services do Advocates for Human Rights, you guys. You guys are both Advocates for Human Rights. What services do you guys provide?

Hanne Sandison
In the Refugee and Immigrant program, we provide direct legal services in immigration proceedings to asylum seekers, trafficking survivors and unaccompanied minors, along with, like I said, are over 1000 volunteer attorneys. So for the most part, we’re working with clients, understanding their claims and then pairing them with a volunteer. And have a really strong network of volunteer attorneys, most of them here in the Twin Cities, but also across the country and in representing clients in their in their immigration cases. Um, but yeah, that’s kind of that’s mostly what we do. Yeah, if you’re an attorney and want to take on a pro bono case, definitely reach out, give us a call. And we have a lot of volunteers that have no immigration experience when they start with us, and we are willing to work with everybody.

Alberto Villafan
Thank you guys so much for joining us today. Once again, this is Kim and Hanne from Advocates for Human Rights. Thank you all so much for joining us this afternoon. Thank you to Hanne and Kim for taking time to speak with all of us and answering all of your questions. We really hope this is beneficial to everyone I know. I feel a little more informed, at least 5% more informed.

Hanne Sandison
Oh, good. That’s a good percent these five. Yeah, that’s more than four.

Alberto Villafan
That’s more than four. Before I sign off, I want to remind everyone please do notmiss our upcoming community conversation with NPR news next Thursday at February 20, at 6pm in St Paul, you’ll hear immigrant stories and explore what preserving cultures look like for immigrants and refugees in Minnesota today, you can learn more using the link in our bio and perusing the rest of our website. We’ll have more information online.